The Truth About Birth Control: A Conversation with Dr. Rachel Marinowsky EP: 126

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Depression, anxiety and autoimmune symptoms after birth is not how it’s supposed to be. There is a much better way, and I’m here to show you how to do just that. Hey, my friend, I’m Maranda Bower, a mother to four kids and a biology student turned scientist, obsessed with changing the world through postpartum care.
Join us as we talk to mothers and the providers who serve them and getting evidence-based information that actually supports the mind, body and soul in the years after birth.
Hello everyone, welcome to the Postpartum University podcast, Maranda Bower here and I have an incredible guest, and I will tell you I have spent a lot of time searching for this guest, and it was probably a good six months because I wanted to find the right person to talk about this particular topic, which is birth control.
I tell you what I found her. I am so in love with her. Welcome, Rachel Marinovsky. She works with Kale Blossom. She’s a naturopathic doctor and physician, and I knew immediately upon our relationship as we were building, that she was the one who’s going to have this conversation with me. Thank you so much for being here.

Rachel: 1:26

Thank you. Thank you for that super sweet introduction and likewise thanks for what you do. It’s great when we can be synergistic on a topic such as women’s health because we’re kindred spirits it sounds like, Maranda.

Maranda: 1:42

Can you tell us a little bit more about how you got into this field and what really drew you into the conversations that you’re having, especially across Instagram, of where you’re really bringing the truth and the light to this holistic wellness, especially in regards to women’s health care?

Rachel: 2:03

Yeah, sure, I had always, since I was a little girl, wanted to go to conventional medical school, wanted to be a doctor. After undergraduate I said, well, let me go get some real-world experience, some health care experience. Just make sure, this is really what I’m going to do. I went to work for a large healthcare system in Atlanta that’s still around, actually. I was in charge of the corporate health campaign, so we would go to different businesses and we would do glucose screenings and cholesterol screenings and blood pressure screenings and there were largely staff who were 30, 40, 50-year-old people and we would say, okay, you have high blood pressure, get ready to go on medication for the rest of your life, or your cholesterol through the roof, get ready to go on medication. And so that was my first kind of experience with the conventional medical system and how there are just so many deficits and so many broken parts of the system and I said, surely there’s got to be more that we can offer these people.
Where is the preventive proactive, where’s the educational piece? Where’s the lifestyle modification? And why is that not being talked about? So as I dug deeper, I said, well, the conventional medical school curriculum just didn’t jive with the fibers of my being. Like why aren’t we talking about clinical nutrition when diet is such an important part? Why aren’t we talking about hormones for women? Why aren’t we? So that’s where naturopathic medicine found me. So I ended up going to naturopathic medical school, which is a four-year program, and started practicing here in Atlanta almost 15 years ago, which is crazy. I always thought that I would do an integrative clinic. So I was lucky enough, serendipitous and the way that God works brought me to different women also in healthcare in Atlanta, and we started an integrative birth center in downtown Atlanta, which is really the birth center part is separate from my practice. I co-managed a number of patients with them, but I left a brag on the birth center part because it’s not mine. So I feel like I can. But just empowering women to know about their bodies, to be their own best patient advocate, to not have to be a part of the broken system. Yes, we still need it. Yes, there are benefits to our conventional medical system and it needs a major overhauling. And that’s where I feel like, if we can talk about it, change the narrative and then support integrative health, which is really, really empowering, we can have the best of both worlds and do better by way of women’s healthcare, because women deserve it.

Maranda: 4:32

This is why we are so, so aligned in our work and our mission in life, because, you know, again, this is a conversation that needs to be had and, yes, it is necessary to have that medical side of things, but there’s such a gap in our healthcare arena, especially when it comes to women’s healthcare in general. You know, we are so quick to put women into the same category as men when it comes to studying medicine or when it comes to studying nutrition, and so the education that’s available, the science, the data that’s behind that is greatly lacking just in that regard, and so it becomes very difficult and almost a very convoluted conversation when we start looking at okay, what about women’s healthcare? How can we have a better healthcare system or a better approach to our well-being? And it turns out it’s really difficult to find those answers, and one of those which I feel like is science is almost being pushed away when it comes to things like birth control, where we actually do have the evidence to show that this is actually a real danger to women. We have the evidence, we know about it, but we’re still pushing it. So I want to open this conversation up to this particular because I honestly I feel like we could probably talk forever on all things healthcare-related. Yes, for sure, but let’s break it down to the birth control conversation. Why do you feel that this is being pushed, and why are women not aware of the real dangers of birth control?

Rachel: 6:24

Yeah, it’s a great question and you really have to go back to its origination. If you look at the main birth control advocate, kind of the mother of birth control, Margaret Sanger, she was a very, very angry woman looking for vengeance for her mother’s death. The history of birth control is very shady but in learning about a topic you have to get in and see what’s behind it all. So if you know anything about her, her mom had, I think it was like 11 children and ended up dying of tuberculosis when Margaret was very young, which is very tragic, very hard. It was very difficult on her, but she felt like her mom didn’t have access to birth control and it was the downfall, the demise of her mom’s health and what ultimately led to her death. That’s what Margaret thought. So Margaret had this big push to really empower women with their own sexuality and their own fertility, potentially. But from the get-go, if there weren’t great intentions, right, and when they started testing birth control, they were literally using women from the slums of Puerto Rico who had no idea what this medication was and we don’t have full reports on how many of those women died and had adverse health events. It was just kind of shoved under the rug. There’s an excellent book and I know the author, Mike Gaskins. It’s called In the Name of the Pill. You wanna read further? It’s a really, really good book that dives into this. But she teamed up with some very big-name people at the time with a lot of money that were also working on things like depopulation. So it was like they went hand in hand and then you just have this snowball effect. And then it was the 60s and the 70s and women were taking more control of their bodies and could finally vote and all that. So it just really was a snowball effect. But interestingly enough too, there were a lot of Senate hearings on how dangerous this was. There was a lot of research back in those early days in the 60s and the 70s, and then it just kind of went away and it’s kind of like, okay, well, where did all of that go? So if you wanna dig in deeper, there In the Name of the Pill is a great book and he really dives into that. But I think now we’re so ingrained, we’re so embedded in the conventional medical system and the pharmaceutical system at large I hate to say it it always goes back to big pharma and follow the money trail. It’s a big money making operation. Birth control prescriptions are very, very, very common and you tie that to conventional medical providers who it is one of their only tools in the toolbox, to their credit. They don’t know how to dig to the root cause and we’re starting at even 13,. There are no laws in the US you probably know this, Maranda saying there’s an age restriction on how early a doctor can prescribe birth control. So we’re talking as soon as she hits her adolescents or period, she can get birth control. For things like abnormal periods, pms, cramping, weight gain, acne, and we all know in the integrative health world birth control doesn’t fix any of those things, any of those. It’s barely even a bandaid and when you weigh the risk versus benefit, it’s scary. It really is.

Maranda: 9:47

I have met young ladies from 9-10 years old being prescribed birth control because they have migraines, and I feel like this is to your point that this is one of the only tools if you have something going on in your life, likely it’s hormone related in the medical field and therefore birth control will be your answer. And what we’ve come to find is that that is really not the case. And even in postpartum, I mean that six-week checkup, that’s the standard checkup. And why does that checkup happen? Let’s get you birth control. Let’s get you birth control. I remember so many times that was the conversation that was had, not what’s going on with my body, how is this working? What do I expect next? What are the challenges that I’m going through and what can I do about them? It was here’s your birth control. Which one would you like?

Rachel: 10:49

Yes, with no full transparency on the potential side effects, the nutrient depletions, the interactions, the fact that we’re not addressing underlying hormonal imbalances. That’s where I really have a bone to pick, if you will. We posted on this for Kale Blossom today. If you look at the timeline of health care for women, starting in infancy, so a newborn baby girl nowadays, which, thankfully, even when you and I were kids, the vaccine schedule wasn’t as aggressive, now it’s super aggressive. By the time a little girl gets to 12 years of age, she’s going to have over 14 different types of vaccines, 30 to 40 doses if parents follow the standard CDC schedule. So we’re starting with this little developing body. We’re putting all kinds of interventions in. Then she gets after 12, she gets the HPV vaccine, which even the CDC says it’s a very manageable virus by the immune system. And it is pretty propaganda. It was what I call it because they tell and this is all over the CDC’s website, which is false information that it is upwards of 95% or more effective at preventing cancer. Guess what? Uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, cancers in general can take 30 years to develop. The HPV vaccine is only 17 years old. So they don’t know that, they can’t say that we don’t have long-term studies, so we do the HPV vaccine as well and then she can start birth control at 13 to 15. And then she’s going to struggle maybe to get pregnant, so then maybe she’ll do IVF and more hormones. So we’re just throwing more and more in the body. Say, she’s on birth control, it doesn’t have pregnancy difficulties or conceived naturally easily, wonderful. So then she gets into the medical system where we over-fragilize pregnancy, we over-medicalize it. She has 15 visits, excessive monitoring during pregnancy, even if it’s a normal pregnancy not for, but it’s a geriatric one like myself, currently 41 and pregnant. And then, after she has a baby, she has one postpartum appointment, which I know, and she’s offered birth control or an IUD and then from there they say okay and just wait for menopause. It’s gonna be hell on earth, there’s nothing really we can do. Synthetic hormones we’ll give you another anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, sleep pills, and there you go. That is the timeline of conventional medical care for women. And I hate to be a negative Nancy, I really am not, but when you break it down, that’s the backbone of conventional medicine.

Maranda: 13:09

Yeah, and I don’t feel like you’re being a negative Nancy, I think you’re just speaking the truth, which is really difficult to hear sometimes. But we need to understand this and when we understand it, then we can start making some changes and then we can start making some adjustments. I know so many people who have been on the birth control pill or any type of birth control really any hormonal kind of medication or anything like that and it has been greatly influential in their life, whether they realize it or not. And a lot of the symptoms are starting to emerge. And then they’re like well, how do I get the help that I need? And they’re not satisfied with the medical system. And then that’s how they go down the line of research and they start finding all of these answers. And the one thing that I hear so often is okay, how do I heal my body after being on birth control? What do I do? What are my options?

Rachel: 14:03

There’s another really good, great book by a pharmacist actually a conventionally trained pharmacist called the Pill Problem and he brought light to the fact that birth control is the number one cause of B vitamin deficiency in our country. So the first thing I would always say and always do for my patients, one if we can prevent them going on it in the first place and look at the bigger picture and figure out how they need support other than birth control. Of course it’s always a woman’s choice. I always meet patients where they are. If that’s something that she wants to do, I will support and respect that absolutely, but I will support her. I think all doctors who are giving out prescriptions to birth control need to also give a good quality B complex. It should be anonymous, for if we’re still gonna use it then we need to support the body but certainly nutrient testing, thorough lab work. I always say test, don’t gas. So that and this is where conventional medical the system approach it’s so hard to change the paradigm because it’s not the same for every single woman. So it’s not gonna be a quick 10 to 15 minute visit with your doctor. It’s looking at that individual bio-individual, her biochemistry, and what she needs. Because one woman who was on birth control for five years may need B vitamins, thyroid support, and detoxification. Another woman may need gastrointestinal support, liver support, and more stress management. So the different flavors of the woman depend on what she’s gonna need for her supportive protocol. So that’s where, of course, I’m biased. But finding a good integrative health provider whether it’s not a product position, an integrative MD, do, nurse practitioner there’s so many great providers now I don’t really care about the title, just someone that’s gonna look at the big global picture of that woman’s health. Dig to get to the root cause in our patient visits. First patient visit we go back to when her mom was pregnant with her. Say what do you know about it? Was she stressed, was she not? How was her relationship with your father? Were you bad on the war? Or C-section, because you know that changes microbiome and gut and immune system for the rest of her person’s life. Were you gruff, bad or not? Were you a fussy baby? Did you have a traumatic childhood or did you feel emotionally safe and secure all of those things when you were in third grade, seven years of age? It’s a really important developmental window for the thyroid, which the thyroid is really important that hormonal access. Someone says my grandfather died. It was very, very traumatic. He was my person. Okay, I know I have to dig into that woman’s thyroid and that may have been her issue. So many. I don’t see a lot of teenage girls in practice now, because it’s the bulk of my practice is probably 30, 40, 50 year old women. But the ones that I do and even on kids, younger girls that I do, blood work on everyone’s thyroid is in the tank. We’re talking seven-year-olds, nine-year-olds, 12-year-olds. So those are root cause issues that if we get to that then we don’t even have to ever consider birth control as a band-aid. That’s also potentially detrimental to her health and on them.

Maranda: 17:15

I’m so glad that you’re saying all of this. In the postpartum nutrition certification program, which I’m totally plugging in right now, we talk about conscious care and how important it is to really go back and ask all of these questions in order to truly understand the whole picture of where a mom is. This is whole body care. But what I refer to as conscious care and it’s so necessary in the conversation here and one thing that you mentioned is like everybody’s thyroid is in the tank right now and that being a root cause and I wonder, can it go even further? Our thyroids are not meant to be out of balance. Our thyroids are not to be in disharmony. They’re meant to work well and our body does everything possible to make it work well, but when it’s in a state of dysfunction, there’s something else that’s happening. What are the reasons why there’s so much dysfunction within the thyroid or within the body? What are those root causes?

Rachel: 18:23

Yeah, that’s a great point. Several great points. The body wants to be in a state of homeostasis and balance, absolutely, and thyroid dysfunction is not a root cause. And what’s underneath that one thing? Well, there are several things, I think, but one main factor is that the thyroid gland is one of the most superficial organs, closest to the skin surface. It doesn’t have a big fat buffer, doesn’t have bones, and we live in a super toxic world, not to mention with the way society is. Like woman, you must be beautiful, you must wear makeup and perfume, and so we’re slathering ourselves with lotions and potions and toxins, especially right here on the neck. So the thyroid just absorbs it all, the mental, emotional piece of the thyroid. So many times when women don’t have a voice. This is something I would love to research with one of a dear colleague in mind who I work with, who’s a psychologist. We found that women that don’t feel like they have a voice, whether it’s in their family of origin or in their marriage, your voice boxing and thyroid are right there together and this is that very difficult research area where you can’t really quantify or qualify that mental, emotional connection to the physical. But they’re inextricable, like if someone jumps out from behind the bushes. You experience that in your mind it’s an emotion of fear, but it manifests into the physical, your pupils, to highlight your respiration. Your breath changes, your heart beats faster, you start sweating. So I think that’s a big factor in nutrient depletions. Even our soils, versus 30 years ago, are less nutrient replete than they are our foods, which are definitely killing us, super, super unhealthy.

Maranda: 19:58

Filled with toxins all the things yes.

Rachel: 20:01

And they’re marketed to children. They’ve done studies looking at how much more the yucky foods are marketed to children. They’re inundated with information give me the Oreo and the food dye cupcake. I don’t want to tear it right so you can’t blame them. But I think moms are also really depleted, which is creating a generation of depleted kiddos. So there’s so many factors. So so many factors.

Maranda: 20:28

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How does birth control impact breastfeeding? Do we know the answer to that?

Rachel: 21:03

I don’t know that we do, and we don’t know to what extent synthetic hormones are going to impact that baby, whether it’s a boy or girl, down the road. But it is one of those things that we say, okay, well, children now are sicker than they’ve ever been and we’re using more vaccines and more medications and more when our own birth control right after they have a baby. They were on it before for many years. Like what? Yeah, it’s muddy in the water and there’s no way that we can’t say it’s not interfering on a cellular, mitochondrial DNA level. Yeah, because how they work, you know, there’s very, very miniscule, small levels of dosing. Medications depend on parts per billion, right to a word. So we’re saying and they’ve studied women’s breast milk. There’s a new lab that I want to actually look into where you can send in your breast milk to see how nutrient-repleted it is, and I used to work in this lab and I tried to get. It was a lot of men on the exact team and I just couldn’t get their buy-in. But I was trying to get more of a panel for moms looking at things like okay, if she’s been on birth control, what nutrients do we need to look at, what cellular phase one, phase two detox do we need to look at what might go buy-in? And then also can we analyze her breast milk for toxins, for hormones, for foods and stuff? So you know, just like a whole. Still one day with all my free time, I might do that, push through that again. But again men, they were like okay, it sounds like a great idea. We’ll look at it later. You know we never do, but I think specialty testing is very important. We use it a lot in my practice. I think that’s gonna continue to be a wonderful tool to help the individual moving forward and that’s how we also get away from the potential and get more to that, like you said, conscious, customized care that people consider.

Maranda: 23:02

I love that. I was actually pitched by that company or at least a company that was similar who had breastfeeding strips that you just put your milk on and you send it off and then it’ll tell you what your nutrient levels were within your breast milk. It was really interesting, very fascinating information, and that company actually got so much backlash within the community because breastfeeding providers, particularly lactation consultants, IBCLCs were terrified that if women got this information and they found that they were depleted of some key nutrients that they would choose to stop breastfeeding their babies and then they would pick up formula or they would assume that well, I’m obviously not good enough for my baby, so, therefore, I’m going to supplement with formula or I’m going to do formula instead and ruin the breastfeeding relationship. I know that company struggled immensely. But to your point how necessary those testing pieces can be for our overall health and well-being, and just to take note that, hey, yes, breastfeeding is number one and the best source of nutrients for our babies, whether or not we’re depleted or not. But there are also things that we can do to support our bodies as well as our babies, and that. So I’m glad that you brought that up, because it’s a huge piece that we should be looking at further. But again, that male bias and, I think, the bias within our own communities, not really wanting to know the truth. Again, in my certification program for nutrition, and specifically related to postpartum, we talk about the significance of nutrition and breastfeeding and how many people are saying, but wait, if we say this information, it’ll be such a hindrance to the population and they’ll stop breastfeeding. It’s like no, no, no, no, because we’re presenting it the way we present it is key. The tools that we provide are so necessary and the more we know, the better we can do. So let’s start believing in women and start supporting women and allowing them to grow and be nurtured. That’s what this is going to support with. So it’s a huge mindset shift, but one that’s so necessary.

Rachel: 25:37

I agree, and to count something out, I get it, though, because moms do have so much pressure and even the whole sick community can be. We need some people who are called toxic, because if you’re not 100% or there’s no towing the line if you will, yeah, I think you’re spot on now with women just needing more support, needing more tribes so that you can talk through things. If we get your breast milk nutrient panel done, it shows you’re a little bit low and XYZ. It doesn’t mean stop. It’s still the best thing you can do for your baby. Let’s use it as an empowering point and make the changes that we know that we need to know that we have the information.

Maranda: 26:20

Yeah.

Rachel: 26:21

Yeah, it’s a mental health shift, for sure.

Maranda: 26:25

I think so many. So much of it relies on the fact that these changes that need to take place are really lifestyle changes, and those are some of the hardest changes to make, especially when we have zero support, especially when we have a little one who is attached to our hip and needs us at every moment to make those lifestyle changes without support. Changing our diet, exercising regularly, starting a detox regimen, getting better sleep. All of these components require so much more of you, and this fast, go, go, go, paced world, this very masculine world that doesn’t support the ebbs and flows of the female body and what we need in terms of rest and relaxation and nourishment and all of the things. So I think that’s a whole conversation in and of itself, but again, yes, it does go back to the support and the systems that we need to have in place to make that happen, and that’s sometimes hard. So this is why you hire someone like a naturopathic doctor, this is why you go out and you get the testing. This is why you reach out for some additional support, so that you’re not there doing it by yourself. You’re not there doing it alone.

Rachel: 27:53

Yeah, it’s an investment in your health and your well-being and you know some will say, well, I can’t afford it. Then, finding those, like you said, finding those areas where you can have more incoming arrows than the outgoing arrows, like so many of us, women do right and caring for others and women as servants at heart, if you will. But there are so many moms groups. You know just a good friend that you can actually talk to and be authentic with Making sure you’re getting your sleep. So no late-night scrolling or if that’s your only window and little ones are finally in bed, you have peace and quiet. You need to go to bed. That’s more important than anything else you can do. There’s a reason why you can go longer without food and water than you can sleep. Sleep is huge. Hydration you know there’s so many free things that you can do. Feed yourself on a regular basis. Don’t go too long without food. Blood sugar drops are huge. Blood sugar dysregulation will scramble your hormones, zap your energy, make you feel crummy and shorten your bandwidth. And we know when we don’t feel good, we’re not. You know we’re. This is not good right. It’s not good for us, it’s not good for our kiddos, not good for our family. So putting yourself first on the equation for one and it’s something that who is it that said? That has like a self-centered podcast. But it’s all about, like you know, put it your oxygen mask on first, that’s not selfish. We’re only as good as you are mom. You know so like we want you to be healthy and then everyone benefits. But yeah, it’s a bigger, a bigger web leaving, even though if you start with one little area, it’s going to help support and then from there you can grow. But one thing too which is huge is empowering our daughters at a young age, being embarrassed about their bodies, to talk about their voice. I mean, even my mom was like, when you say the word period, it was like so gross and weird. You know like now my oldest is nine, we talk about periods all the time. It’s like no big deal. My son, who’s 11, talks about periods. It’s like yeah, yeah. On conversations with our kids, we need her to get to know her body and her options. I bet if we surveyed teenage girls in all the local high schools, or one local high school and said what do you do if your periods are abnormal or if you have bad cramps or you get headaches or a serious cycle. They’d say go on birth control. Or Midol, that’s all they know. They’re not being empowered even by their pediatricians to say okay, have I had enough water today? The hydration top cause of headaches? What am I putting into my body to feed myself? Or foods and things like MSG, and gluten, food dyes, those that can all contribute to headaches in addition to hormonal imbalance, indirectly. It’s talking about these things with our daughters. That doesn’t require a physician or a doctor’s appointment or money. If a mom can empower herself with that information, she shares it with her children. We’re changing generationally. We are changing generationally for the better.

Maranda: 30:57

I’m so glad that you said this. I have a nine-year-old daughter too. She’s my oldest girl. We have been talking about periods. I’ve been walking her through the process because she’s just so interested. She wants to know all of the things when can I wear a bra? What happens if my period starts? At school? We’ve just been having these conversations. I got her a book which is one of and I won’t name it because it’s one of the most popular books on puberty and what happens to a female body and how it grows and develops. This is exactly what it was saying is that, oh, you’re going to feel bad when you have your period. It’s going to feel awful. There’s nothing you can do about it. Talk to your doctor. I was like, oh my word, oh my word, no, no, there was so much on nutrition, this balanced diet, but you can have these sweets and you can do this very much.

Rachel: 31:55

The USDA plate and I was like what are we doing to our girls?

Maranda: 32:03

Of course, I had to go in and explain why that book was wrong, which was such a conversation in and of itself. I was like I should have done better in looking at this. I got it because it was popular and I just assumed bad decision. But yeah, yeah, so much. There is so much that we can do, that is free, that is empowering for ourselves and if you can afford that support, go get it, because it’s not just about you, it’s about the next generation too.

Rachel: 32:37

And just like that book, it’s almost like we’re counting women out before we have even given them a chance. The book says your periods are going to be terrible, deal with it. Then it says labor deliveries, pregnancy, is going to be terrible. Deal with it. Menopause is going to be hell on earth. Deal with it. And what kind of messaging. Over time, the neuroplasticity of our brain remembers negative to positive, 9 to 1. It’s like, oh OK, that’s bad, I’m going to remember it. Periods are bad, pregnancy is bad, labor deliveries bad. Menopause, womanhood is bad. Ultimately, I mean, yeah, and I’m here to suffer.

Maranda: 33:12

Yes, and I’m here to suffer, yes, and so what we do to ourselves is we sit and suffer because we’re told that that’s normal and that mediocre motherhood I talk about this in my book is that’s the way it’s supposed to be, and we don’t know any different. And I will tell you the disempowered women, the women who are feeling yucky, the women who are, who are struggling to get by, who are not feeling very well, it’s so hard, it’s so difficult to fight for your needs to be an empowered women. Empowered women will change the world and right now we need that more than ever. So not only do you need to be well for yourself, for your children, but for the world, for the community. Like seriously, we need you, we need your help, and we can’t do it if you’re feeling yucky. I know that I couldn’t do it. Feeling yucky like it just. You know, a huge part of my experience was being severely depressed and experiencing I had ulcerative colitis for a good part of my life as well, and so you know, being sick on the toilet really is just. You’re not. You’re not doing any service to anyone, right, including yourself. So thank you so so much for this conversation, Rachel. I truly feel like I can sit here and we can just talk and talk and talk. Where can people find you and connect in with you?

Rachel: 34:46

So the best way is kaleblossom.com We’re very active on Instagram, which is @kaleblossom, as I’ve handled name, and we are constantly putting out new content. My dear friend, who’s actually chiropractor by training, but women’s health advocate too she’s the other half of Kale Blossom. We do all of our own content we’re persnickety like that. We want to control what gets out there. Our practice is actually full. We’re not taking any new patients. We’re overly full, so we’re trying to get people to. If you want to be an integrative doc, get out there and do it. We need more, and we are also about to launch our online. It’s called Simplicity Kale Blossom. It’s like a reset, so it’s an eight-week program. It’s meant to be inexpensive and easy for women including especially moms to go through the pillars of health week by week, and then we have two live sessions. So that would be something. If you don’t have great access to integrative care or you want a more economical way, that would be an offering that we are going to be launching soon. So Kaleblossom.com.

Maranda: 35:51

Amazing, amazing, and we are going to have all of those links in the show notes so that you can take a look at that. Thank you again so much for being here.

Rachel: 35:59

Thank you for having me, it was a pleasure.

Maranda: 36:05

I am so grateful you turned into the post part of me university podcast. We’ve hoped you enjoyed this episode enough to leave us a quick review. And, more importantly, I hope more than ever that you take what you’ve learned here, applied it to your own life and consider joining us in the postpartum university membership. It’s a private space where mothers and providers learn the real truth and the real tools needed to heal in the years postpartum. You can learn more at www.postpartumu. That’s the letter U.com. We’ll see you next week.