Welcome to the Postpartum University podcast where we support you and your provider in understanding the science, the art, and the sacredness of healing after birth. I’m Maranda Bower, your host, your postpartum nutrition specialist, and homesteading mom with four wild kids. It’s time to get you the holistic, whole-body healing that works.
Maranda: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Postpartum University. I’m Maranda Bower, of course, and I have Pauline Hannan here. She is simplifying leakage, pain with intimacy, and improving the postpartum experience, all without Kegels. Okay? So Pauline is a pelvic floor coach and a physical therapist, if you haven’t guessed, and she was able to build beyond the V physical therapy clinic in less than a year and has an incredible weight list. She’s also the founder of No Kegels University, an online university with courses all on women’s health and topics. And I can’t wait to ask you all about Kegels before we even get there. Please tell us how you got started. How did you get into this field?
Pauline: Oh, well, thank you. So it was on accident, actually. I started, so I’m a physical therapist, just like, you know, if you went for back pain or hip pain or knee pain, I went to physical therapy school just like they did. And going into PT school, I was convinced I was going to be a pediatric physical therapist. But after my first experience, the feedback I got from my instructors was “Paul, you did a lot more mothering than you did actual treatment.” And I kind of realized, “Oh, maybe I’m just meant to be a mother.” But I had had this experience to pull from where when I was working as a physical therapy aide before PT school, I had this interaction with one of the new graduates, one of the new PTs working in the clinic. And to make a very long story short, she ended up knowing all of these things that were going on with my body and pre-diagnosed me, if you will, with a women’s health issue that I had never even heard, yet here she was a new grad. So I ended up spending some time, you know, with a women’s health physical therapist, and I was lucky enough to get into a rotation where I thought we were doing more post mastectomy care after a woman has had part of her breast or all of her breasts removed after breast cancer and turns out I was in a rotation where we did nothing but the pelvic floor. So I got a very quick and big baptism by fire, if you will, into the pelvic floor. And initially, I did not love it. I kind of thought it was inappropriate, if you will. And I heard enough women’s stories that I realized it wasn’t about me, it was my job, it was my calling if you will in this life to be able to provide answers and to help and to provide help for these women who legitimately need it, whose lives were dramatically affected by not getting the care that they needed. So that is the long story short.
Maranda: Yeah, that’s incredible. And here you are, promoting the… we should not be doing Kegels, which for many, this is a whole new concept. This is not what women are told. And you’re saying that in order to get back to public floor strength, don’t do that. So please, spill the beans, tell us everything about this concept.
Pauline: Okay, I’d love to. This is one of my most favorite things to talk about. So oftentimes I’ll start this conversation with, okay, if you wanted to get super fit, look really great in a swimsuit or go on vacation, you’d probably go to a personal trainer and they would help you with a strengthening program. And if they said to you, “Hey, listen, we don’t need to lift weights. We don’t need to do any of that. You just need to lay there and squeeze your muscles and relax and then squeeze your muscles and relax.” You’d probably ask for your money back or do nothing that they told you to do. I liken that to the pelvic floor. One, I don’t think we quite understand the pelvic floor in its entirety and its complexity. So there are three layers of muscles. There are 12 muscles in total. What we know now is that whatever the hip does or doesn’t do decides what the pelvic floor does or doesn’t do. So just even sharing that information and then thinking about this hypothetical situation where you go to a trainer that tells you just to squeeze your muscles and relax, that pelvic floor needs a lot more input, it needs a lot more load, and it needs a lot more programming. I’m making it sound more complicated than what it is. Like you said earlier, I simplify all this. But to say that all you need to do is just contract a muscle and then relax, like that’s good enough to get your muscle strong. I don’t think it takes a degree in physical therapy. I don’t think it takes being a personal trainer to understand, Oh, yeah, that’s not how you get muscle strong, you have to really work them. And so a Kegel is just squeezing and relaxing and squeezing and relaxing. So that’s why that pelvic floor needs a lot more input and work and a lot more programming, if you will, with my method that I’ve put together.
Maranda: Yeah. So a lot of people don’t know this, but I was a certified perinatal fitness trainer. Oh, many years ago, many, many years ago. And of course, what it was like the number one thing that they taught right is Kegels.
Pauline: And it was interesting because as the years progressed and you start really looking at the research and the science and how actually a lot of women are hurting their bodies by doing Kegels, right? Because there’s a whole component to this included where we’re not even touching on the fact that some of the issues that we experience in the pelvic floor are because those muscles are too tight. And by doing Kegels, we’re increasing that tightness and causing, therefore, more problems. And so, again, like you said, there are so many different pelvic floor muscles. We can’t just focus on one. We shouldn’t focus on just the Kegel alone for many people because that can actually do more damage than it could for good. Right. It’s crazy, it’s absolutely crazy. Like there’s just so much, I really feel like this is such new information, right? When we look at postpartum anything, nutrition, exercise, you know, any topic whatsoever, it’s kind of new. It’s kind of new. It’s not something that’s really been studied in a long time. So we have to be really aware that what we once knew, oftentimes becomes no longer.
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Pauline: Well, the first thing, and I’ll throw this in as a bonus because I’ve been known to probably throw a whole lot more information at people, but I want women to have the best information. So the very first thing that I would actually say before you start strengthening, I call this phase one with my patients in the clinic or my coaching clients is we have to establish movement. Meaning that if you tore or had an episiotomy, which is a large percentage of women that who have birthed babies, that scar needs to move well. And like you hinted at also that those muscles very well could be too tight. Those muscles need to be moving well, because just like your bicep, and I know that you can’t see, well, not all of you can see me, but think about your bicep. If you do a bicep curl, that elbow has to straighten and then bend. And what’s happening at the bicep is that bicep is contracting when you bring your hand up to your shoulder to do that bicep curl. And then when you go to straighten that elbow, your hand’s moving away, that bicep is relaxed. but it’s also lengthening. So if you think about, okay, well, you know, if you happen to watch your arm just for five minutes while you’re in the kitchen, that bicep is doing all sorts of movements. It’s bending, it’s straightening, it’s doing this degree, it’s doing this degree. And so if you think about the pelvic floor being a muscle, muscles, just like any other muscle group, these muscles have to move. So that’s the very first step. And I know that it seems so silly and so basic, but I’ll have patients that have come in for years and years, they’ve struggled with leakage and they’re like, I’ve done every program, you know, I’ve gone, I’ve gotten help from professionals or, you know, you name it, and I’m still leaking. And we take a look at their pelvic floor and that scar is what the problem is. So that’s the very first step. And I have a, I call it my no leakage starter kit that outlines all of that, which I’m happy to share with all of you because—
Maranda: Yes, please do. We’ll make sure to link that.
Pauline: Absolutely. Yes. ‘Cause like I said, I want there to be good information and correct information that’s gonna give you a lot of bang for your buck because like one of the reasons I love your episode so much is because they are short. They’re bite-sized, and we don’t have a ton of time. So if there’s something that’s gonna pack a big punch, sign me up, and I’m sure that’s probably how most of your listeners are too. But the way in which that I’ve discovered, whether that’s research or from mentors, is what I call the VAB3 method of how you strengthen your pelvic floor. So V is for vertical, A is for above, B is for below, and three is for all three planes. So vertical just simply references the mere fact that one of the jobs of the pelvic floor is that it contracts against our urethra any time that we have up and down motion, right? So if we leak, we’re not leaking on the part of the sneeze, we’re leaking on the chew part of the sneeze. It’s that downward pressure that that pelvic floor is counteracting against. So we’ll utilize vertical motion in our strengthening. A is for above, meaning that your core needs to be strong. You need to have great thoracic or spine mobility, good flexibility through there. And even just adding above components, which I’ll talk about here in a second. So, but even just to, you know, just simplify that a little bit more. I like to add a lot of reaching with squats and lunges because it’s gonna change the load down through that hip and that pelvic floor, asking it to do a little bit more or taxing it like it needs.
B is for below, I hinted at this earlier when I said whatever the hip does or doesn’t do decides what the pelvic floor does or doesn’t do. And so a lot of the programming that I’ll give people, they’ll say, oh man, I feel like I’m doing a lot of leg workouts. Right? Right. But again, because whatever that hip does, so if I’m having to do something that seems like a balance activity, if you think about how that kind of like a domino effect, it goes up the chain into that hip and that pelvic floor, that pelvic floor is also having the opportunity to work. And then three is all three planes. We are 3D people living in this 3D world. And the pelvic floor is the only group of muscles in the body that has fibers that run in all three planes. So I’m not sure what else suggests how functional and how important our pelvic floor is in our daily activity. And so making sure that you’re adding all three planes, anything front to back, side to side or diagonal as part of our exercise, that will help with that pelvic floor. So what I’ll tell people is, okay, now that you have, you know, a quick, quick understanding of the VAB3 method, you pick two and create your exercise from that. So that’s where I have people start and I think it’s always, it always puts a smile on my face when people will say, okay, so if I’m doing yoga, am I strengthening my pelvic floor? Yes. If you’re doing a step aerobics class where you’re jumping up onto the step and jumping off and doing squats and reaching and doing all of that. Yes, that is working your pelvic floor. We do a lot more pelvic floor work than probably what we know. But again, that kind of goes back to that phase one, getting those tissues, those muscles, that fascia moving before we can really get into that strengthening.
Maranda: And this is such an important topic because I want to clarify that the female pelvis, right? The female pelvis is not the same as the male pelvis. It has so many different moving parts and muscles. It is physiologically different. And because of that, and as you said, it is the only part of our body, I mean, it’s that important, right? That has tissues in all three planes. It is one of the most foundational pieces to our health and well-being. right? And it’s not like anyone else’s. And so you can’t do a workout routine or whatever the case may be that has been created for a male pelvis, this is what I’m trying to get to, okay? And if you’re really looking for getting your health back, right? I mean, ’cause this isn’t just about, okay, I’m gonna strengthen my body and get my body back and I want to feel good in my body. I mean, this is also about your digestion. This is also about relieving constipation. This is also about incontinence and so many other factors that play a role in our life. It’s even impacts how we play with our children, right? Of course. First time after three years of pelvic floor physical therapy, I’ve got four kids, right? All birth naturally. I went to the fly trampoline park the other day for my kid’s birthday and I was bouncing all over the place. And it was the first time ever and my husband was like, “Whoa, look at you!” And then my sister-in-law, but she was like, “Did you like have to put on a diaper? Like, are you okay?” And that was because her, I mean, it was her experience. That’s what she has to do, right? Like, and I want to tell you that that’s not the case. It’s not okay to do that. There is a better way. Pelvic floor physical therapy hands down has changed my life. And I highly, highly, highly recommend it ’cause it is one of the most important things that you can do for your health.
Maranda: So true.
Pauline: Is it ever too late to heal the pelvic floor? No, it’s not. And I, and like I said before, you know, as I referenced the bicep and needing to contract and relax and lengthen, you know, heaven forbid, somebody have like a serious injury, they can recover. I mean, I sometimes I’ll even think about different, whether they’re Olympic athletes that make this big comeback where, you know, they haven’t been participating at this Olympic or an elite level, they’re still able to make a comeback. I mean, skill set aside, those muscles, not that maybe they’re just like our muscles, but they’re muscles. And if you utilize muscle strengthening principles, the same information applies. And that’s, I mean, kind of going back to why I don’t really love Kegels, you don’t see Olympic athletes just sitting there, or squeezing their bodies and relaxing. they’re doing cross-training and they’re doing training specifically to their sport and you know, moms, like you said, they need to be able to keep up with their kids and go to trampoline parks if that’s what they want to do and not leak and have to go pay extra money for adult diapers because they’re a small fortune in my opinion.
It’d be my hope that we could eradicate all of them. But a lot like you said, if they’re or like you asked, I should say, there, there is hope, these are muscles, they can recover just like any other muscle group. It’s so true. And I hope that those who are listening in kind of connect the pieces I’ve always said that it’s never too late to heal. And that is so, so true for your pelvic floor. So if you’re having any symptoms of weakness, weakness within your pelvic floor, there are things that you can do. And there’s probably things that you’re already doing. I mean, as moms, we are carrying giant car seats. We are lugging 20 pound kids around in our arms, right? Or we’re carrying them, slinging them on our hips. We’re carrying in lots of groceries up and down steps. like we already work out so much so don’t feel like you have to go to a gym or that you have to start working out because you’re already doing that. You did it with a little bit more consciousness and follow what Pauline is sharing with you as you’re moving it will change your life completely.
Maranda: Pauline where can we get all of your amazing goodness?
Pauline: Well, thank you. I will give you the link to the no leakage starter kit. That way all your listeners, if they want it free of charge, I want them to be able to have access to it. I’ll give you that link. I’m on Instagram at beyond the V period by Polly. And there’s a link in the bio that has other information. But I welcome any questions if you don’t feel comfortable talking to me via Instagram, I have a secure email, so you can just shoot me your email and say I prefer to speak via secure email. We can do that as well, but those are the places I’m most active on.
Maranda: And of course, all of those links are in the show notes. So thank you so much for your time and for your attention to this amazing conversation. And I know so many people have gleaned a ton from it. So thank you. You’re welcome. Love this episode. Let us know by leaving an amazing review. Your support is everything. Want more? Head over to postpartumu.com. That’s postpartum, the letter u.com, and explore how we support moms like you in holistic whole body healing that’s specific for the needs of mamas in the years postpartum. See you there.
