Postpartum Recovery Through Yoga with Deb Flashenberg EP: 128

In this episode, we are:

Read the transcript of this episode:

Our famous Postpartum Nutrition Masterclass is back and I am bringing you this holistic training to help you as a provider or professional in the field. We’re going to be covering how you can use functional nutrition to help meet the physiological and psychological needs of a postpartum mom. I’m dropping some never-before-seen downloads that you absolutely don’t want to miss. It’s free, it’ll be live September 12 and you are invited, so learn the details at www.postpartumu.com/masterclass. That’s the letter U.com/masterclass, but seriously, don’t delay. Last year we did this and we had nearly a thousand registered and in attendance and we’re giving you real valuable steps to support your clients. You don’t want to miss your seat, so go register right now. We’ll have the link in the show notes. We’ll see you there.

Depression, anxiety, and autoimmune symptoms after birth is not how it’s supposed to be. There is a much better way, and I’m here to show you how to do just that. Hey, my friend, I’m Maranda Bower, a mother to four kids and a biology student turned scientist obsessed with changing the world through postpartum care. Join us as we talk to mothers and the providers who serve them and getting evidence based information that actually supports the mind, body, and soul in the years after birth.

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Postpartum University podcast. Maranda Bower here and today I am interviewing Deb Flashenberg. She is the founder and director of the prenatal yoga center in New York City. Along with being a prenatal yoga teacher, she’s also a labor support doula, Lamaze childbirth educator, mother of two, and self-proclaimed birth and anatomy geek. In the last seven years, Deb has been greatly enjoying being the host of the podcast Yoga Birth and Babies, where she speaks with some of the world’s leading experts in pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, and parenthood. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you.

Deb: 2:19

Thank you so much. It’s really an honor and a pleasure.

Maranda: 2:22

So tell us, how did you get started in this prenatal yoga space?

Deb: 2:28

Well, it was kind of my accident, so I fell into yoga, also kind of by accident. My background is musical theater, a singer, dancer, and I was working with a choreographer who started to do yoga in our warm-ups and talked about it and I thought, oh, this is kind of fun. And more and more people just kind of pointed me in the direction of yoga, like friends that I met, and so I fell into yoga. But then the first type of yoga I was doing was called Dikram yoga and I really didn’t at first I gelled with it, but then, as I was doing the teacher training, it really wasn’t quite my thing. And I mentioned this after when I was teaching it and somebody said you know, have you thought of prenatal yoga? This is when I was very much in my mid-20s and as a performer, I was like I’m not getting pregnant anytime soon. And none of my friends are getting pregnant anytime soon. But my mom, who did marketing, said that is a really smart idea because people will always be pregnant and they’re always going to want to take care of their body and their baby. So I decided to do a prenatal yoga teacher training. This is I’m going to really date myself. This is back in 2000, I believe, and I soon fell in love with the prenatal world by one of my students asking me to observe some births. She was doing her fellowship at one of the teaching hospitals in New York and I saw that there seemed to be a bit of a discrepancy between what I was teaching, which was just kind of modifications for pregnancy, and what needed to be shown to the students that there was so much in the hospital that I don’t think people really understood like kind of pulled back the curtain to see these births and I don’t feel like people knew to advocate for themselves or kind of questions to ask. So I just fell in love with the idea of making prenatal yoga not just about modifications but about education and advocacy and looking at how we can move our body to better prepare for birth and balance things so baby comes out easier and then postpartum is less tumultuous, so it was really quite by accident, because I didn’t have my first child until oh my gosh, almost 10 years after I was teaching prenatal yoga.

Maranda: 4:48

This is beautiful. This is not your typical getting into the scene kind of space I mean. A lot of times when I’m working with professionals in the field, they’re coming into the space because something happened in their own parenting journey that got them into the space. I think this is so amazing. This is so unique.

Deb: 5:10

Yeah. It also gave me a different perspective, not having had a baby and being really curious at that time.

Maranda: 5:18

Oh, I could imagine and seeing what you see, which, in the birth space, I mean like let’s just, you know, take it to a different level here. We don’t get to see what really happens in the birth room or what happens in postpartum. Like I’ve always said, it’s like the secret club and you don’t know until you’re already in it, and so to have that unique perspective is just such a blessing. It really was so. You know you’re familiar with all of the changes that are happening within the pregnancy and the labor and birth room, and then in postpartum as well. There’s, like, so many changes that are occurring within our body in this very short period of time. Can you explain some of those physiological changes that are occurring in our body? We know what’s happening but like so postpartum.

Deb: 6:09

Yeah. So postpartum, you know I love that we’re talking postpartum, because I often do talk prenatal. But I feel like postpartum, like you said, it’s almost like hidden clubs that until you’re there you don’t know about. And even though I had been teaching it for years until I went through it, I had a really challenging first birth. It was very, very long. So when I embarked on my own postpartum experience I was really shocked how incredibly uncomfortable I was, how I felt just disconnected from my body. So less of it happens postpartum. So when, just as a baby, you know it’s a pretty quick change. You know, all of a sudden the baby’s out, the scent is out, love, the fluid leaves, you know. So their body changes pretty instantaneously for what took somewhere like 40 weeks to create and get used to. So now all of a sudden that baby’s out. If they’re breastfeeding, their milk comes in within a few days. That changes the posture. So posture is one of the first things that I think about in the postpartum body, that we want to look at posture alignment. But then we also want to start to think about what’s happening in that whole core center. Now, oftentimes you’re going to say core and people think just abdominals. But if we think of the core as this canister, and we’ve got the top, which is the diaphragm, this dome-like muscle that helps our breathing, regulates our breathing, and then we’ve got the abdominals in the front and the back muscles in the back and the pelvic floor, that makes this whole canister that is greatly changed so quickly. I mean it changes throughout pregnancy but then all of a sudden, postpartum, we’re left with trying to contend to finding some stability and, as I mentioned, posture’s already changed and then there’s often glute and hip weakness that we experience throughout pregnancy that all of a sudden, postpartum we need to find some stability.
So there’s so many changes so quickly in the postpartum body that I don’t think a lot of people think about. And then also now someone’s home with a baby and they’re trying to figure out how to care for their newborn and to also try to understand their new body. So I think it’s just a fascinating time and a fascinating period to work with and try to support someone getting to know their body again.

Maranda: 8:18

I specifically remember, in my very first postpartum experience, I did not, I could not walk for two weeks straight, I did not walk upright. I felt like there was this big void in my entire core, my entire belly. Something was missing that was so necessary for just being able to walk straight. And of course, that wasn’t necessarily true, but it was mind-blowing to me how different my body felt in that time, like I just I could not. I could not do the normal things that I thought I would be able to do during that time.

Deb: 8:58

Yeah, I was surprised at how disconnected I felt from my core and also my pelvic floor. It’s just again. I pushed for such a long time. That also affected things, but I was really surprised by the lack of stability and support I felt.

Maranda: 9:13

Hands down. So how does yoga support these changes?

Deb: 9:18

Oh, in so many ways it’s one of my favorite things to talk about. So I think one of the best things about yoga it is so breath-supporting and breath-related. Oftentimes I’ll talk about I’ll start class talking about the breath. Most people are like of course, I know how to breathe, but one of the things I think we can benefit from is that good breathing and I’ll talk about that in a moment can be a huge tool in healing the postpartum body. Healing pelvic floor issues, posture and diastasis recti, which a lot of people have a lot of interest in, is like how do I function with my abs again? So I think one of the best things we can do is to teach how to breathe well. Now I say that most people aren’t thinking, but I breathe every day, all day long. Of course, I know how to breathe well, but I think what happens for a lot of us we get stiff in our upper back, we get tight in our jaw. A lot of people really only breathe up high in their chest, or some people are paradoxical there’s where they do it backwards. So when we inhale, we’re naturally supposed to let the diaphragm drop. The lungs fill, the diaphragm drops, the rib cage expands, the belly expands and then when we exhale, the diaphragm lifts and domes the lungs empty, the ribs closed, the abdominal wall deflates and some people do that differently. So if we can start by teaching students how to breathe really well, that can help with the pelvic floor, that can help heal diastasis. So can I go into that a little more? Can I geek out for a moment? Yes, of course. Okay, all right. So diastasis recti, it’s that separation of the rectus abdominals. Those are your six-pack muscles and every pregnant body is going to have to have some thinning and separating at that middle line. That’s called your linial, but it’s connected tissue and so we expect that to happen because we need to make space for the baby. Now, postpartum, some bodies will naturally start to heal itself and reconnect. In that connected tissue remodels and strengthens, and some bodies it takes a longer time and it needs some help. But when we breathe, if that center line is really weak and someone’s constantly doing what we call like a deep belly breath or pushing into that connected tissue, it can continue to weaken it. And so then people are thinking why do I still look four months pregnant, four months after I have my baby? And sometimes it’s because we’re not breathing well, we’re breathing outward, we’re pressing outward, and even some yoga can do that if we’re not mindful of how to do it. So we wanna teach people how to breathe into their side and back ribs. So I call that 360-degree breathing, or some people have three-dimensional breathing. So that’s one of the best ways that we can start to use yoga to support the body and healing really good breath and then also really good breathing. This 360 breathing helps the pelvic floor. So if we think about the diaphragm like this big dome or I can sometimes visualize it like a jellyfish when you inhale and that jellyfish or the diaphragm drops, everything between the diaphragm and the pelvic floor gently gets pressed down, not forcefully, it’s just natural and then the pelvic floor naturally gets some length and then when we exhale, the diaphragm domes and like it has a vacuum effect in all the contents between the diaphragm and pelvic floor lift. So if we’re not finding that relationship between the breath and the pelvic floor, the pelvic floor can really get tight and then people think, oh, I’m having incontinence, I better do more kegels. And sometimes we can overdo it and keep adding to the pelvic floor problem. So that’s the thing we can talk about as well later. But pelvic floor issues just because you had a baby doesn’t mean you should be squeezing, squeezing, squeezing. Sometimes it’s about releasing. So I think one of the best ways yoga can support these changes is learning how to breathe well, using that breath, finding that core connection to help stabilize your spine, and then just on, like the basic levels, we try to rebuild the strength in areas that we can, like the glutes and the hips and the abs, and then, of course, releasing tension. Think about the demands of new parenthood and how we’re overusing the shoulders and the wrists and holding your baby, like all that can get really, really tight and stressed. So we work on that, to release tension and to build strength. So I think yoga just so well supports the postpartum period and the rehab.

Maranda: 13:43

I am so glad that you are sharing all of this information, and I’m a mama of four right. So there was a lot of stuff happening in my pelvic floor and my core and I ended up going to a pelvic floor physical therapist.

Deb: 13:57

Wonderful.

Maranda: 13:58

And I remember her teaching me some breathing exercises and she’s like I just want you to try this first. And I remember, going home I sat down and I like literally sat in a chair, sat, you know, upright, and I just focused on my breathing and after 10 minutes of time I remember my core feeling like I just did 100 sit-ups. It was the most crazy thing I have ever experienced and I was like I just had a workout, breathing like what is this sorcery. But it was so instrumental to my core healing and I will share just a little bit more. I had a very unique experience with my core when I was a little girl. I had hernia surgery and biblical hernia surgery, and so I also had an outie belly button and my doctor, for whatever reason, thought it would be a really good idea to give me an innie, and so he did a lot of extra work on where I had the hernia surgery and I had tons of scar tissue and that scar tissue was connecting my abdominal muscles together and so when I got pregnant, that all split. I literally felt my insides ripping throughout my entire pregnancy, which is one of the reasons why I couldn’t move very well in the postpartum experience because I didn’t have that support that my body had grown to know. Very interesting, very interesting story. I have dealt with it for my entire life, but I will tell you that breathing even in such a unique situation as that, it’s actually a constant issue that I still work with today. Breathing is foundational to that. So super grateful you mentioned that.

Deb: 15:49

Yeah, and also with the breathing. So what I was talking about with the 360 breathing, that’s just getting us connected to the breath. But then what sounds like your PT work with is really using the breath to ignite the transverse abdominals. And a lot of us think, oh, I’m going to do abs, and we often think, OK, let’s just get those crunches in your anterior abs, the front abs, there is four layers and most of us only think about that most surface layer and it sounds like what your PT did was get into that deeper layer, which is really especially if you’re feeling like I have abs, no support that’s what it sounds like. She’s helping you fire it up.

Maranda: 16:23

Oh yeah, and it’s so amazing to me still to this day, this is not my area of expertise. There’s so many muscles in the body in that general area and then in the pelvic floor that we don’t talk about, and I know that Kegels only work so many of those like very, very minute amount compared to what is really in the system and how they all work so intrinsically together we just we need that additional support.

Deb: 16:53

Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree.

Maranda: 16:58

Guess what? The postpartum nutrition certification program is now open for enrollment. If you’re a holistic provider or professional wanting to use therapeutic functional nutrition specific to postpartum so that you can support mamas with mental health, emotional balance, and better healing and health outcomes, then hurry up and go to www.postpartum.com. That’s the letter U.com/nutrition Seriously. Seats fill up insanely fast and you don’t want to miss this cohort. We’ll see you there.

You know there’s there’s so many aches and pains in the initial postpartum period and I know that we’ve talked in the past, we’ve had other conversations around this and a lot of people just kind of like brush these off as normal issues of postpartum. And I talk about this so often like, yes, these things come up for us often, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s normal or that we should have to deal with these right, we don’t suck it up and deal with it. This is just part of motherhood. It’s not? I promise you it’s not. And Deb is here to kind of share a little bit more about why these issues really should not be ignored. So I want you to get into that a little bit if you would and would love to. Yes, yes, let’s go so.

Deb: 18:27

I guess how I’m trying to decide with first pelvic floor or diastasis recti.

Maranda: 18:32

Okay, let’s start with diastasis.

Deb: 18:33

So again, kind of referring to that person that saying, oh, why do I still look pregnant? So that could be because they still have diastasis and people can have it for years. But I go to the beach and not out of like judgment, but I’m like, oh, that person has diastasis, oh my goodness it’s like as someone who loves anatomy, I also like watching how people walk. I find it fascinating. So I like to look at bodies and be like you’re a diastasis. There’s collapse. When were their pelvic floors like? So when we think about diastasis recti, when we don’t have that connective tissue support, now for years people thought about diastasis is just that aren’t drawing the two sides, the rectus, back together and about xix years ago I believe one of the main PTs that talked about this was her name, Diane Lee, and she talked about it’s not just about bringing the gap together. So what is the strength, what is the tensile strength of that fascia, that connective tissue? So I call it marshmallow. So if you keep pressing in, if you like, pressure, like if ever I’m toast marshmallow is like you know, when you put the stick in, how it keeps going and going and going. So we don’t want that, for it’s clearly summer, we do a lot of s’mores here, so we don’t want that for the abdomen. We want, when we’re testing that connective tissue strength, that you have what I call the spring back. It should be like a trampoline. Now, when we don’t have that support, then the breath is going to go for the path of least resistance and when we breathe or try to reconnect to the core, we may have that protrusion outward. So we’re really not getting good core pressure. So it’s something that people can ignore. It’s not going to be crazy problematic, but they may not feel like they may end up with back pain or hip pain because their core pressure system is not functioning at its best, because that pressure is escaping forward into that connective tissue. Now we also want to think about the pelvic floor. This is something that makes me really sad that when you hear people say, oh, you just had a baby, it’s totally normal to pee yourself. What it’s different? What it is, it’s common, it’s very common to have incontinence, but it doesn’t make it normal. So that’s not how our bodies are supposed to function and, honestly, if we don’t take care of that during the postpartum period, when someone hits menopause years later, when their hormones drop, the estrogen drops and they’re more testosterone heavy, then they may find themselves having pelvic floor issues. So while it is common, it is not normal to have incontinence. So I’m always talking to my students about what is going on with your body, what’s happening to the pelvic floor. I’m always referring them out, even though we do a lot of rest, strengthening the supporting muscles of the pelvic floor I am all about. If somebody has the opportunity to work with a pelvic floor PT, they’re going to get really specific rehab for their body. But what we do in postnatal class is we try to strengthen all those supporting muscles. So if the glutes, the butt muscles, have kind of turned off which they do a lot during pregnancy if the hips don’t have support, then the pelvic floor is going to feel like it has to step in and stabilize and that’s not its job. It should not be there to stabilize the pelvis and spine. That’s what these bigger muscles like the glutes and the inner thighs, the outer legs and the back, the abs, that’s what we want them to do. So we work a lot on strengthening the glutes. We work a lot on strengthening the inner legs, and the outer legs, restraining the back, finding that support of the abs so that the pelvic floor doesn’t have to get tighter and more engaged because it’s trying to do the job of all its friends. So it’s one of those things that we could just chalk it up to oh, you just had a baby, you know, expect that. I think people deserve to not have to be concerned about incontinence. It can really affect somebody’s whole quality of life if they have to think, oh my God, I might pee myself if I go out or sneeze or cough or jump on the trampoline with my child or run with my child or whatever. So I’m really passionate about finding some support and strength and honestly, I think we can worsen these things if we don’t pay attention to it. So thinking about diastasis recti if we keep putting this outward pressure into it, it’s going to prevent it from healing. And a lot of people when they try to lift something heavy they end up pressing forward in their abs or bearing down, which can also affect the pelvic floor and pelvic organ prolapse. So I’m really a support of take the time, put the effort in after baby, which I know is a big ask because they’re caring for baby. But I think in the long run it’s going to help someone’s body heal, especially if they’re going to have another baby or just for the rest of their life, just to have later in life not be worried about being themselves. That was a very long answer. I hope I didn’t ramble too much.

Maranda: 23:35

No, it’s perfect. And I truly feel like this postpartum period and I’m going to kind of turn the conversation a little bit we talk about the physical aspects of postpartum, but there’s this huge emotional aspect too, and so many cultures around the world believe we are closest to God, whether you believe in God or not. Like this is a cultural view then, at any other point in our lives, specifically because we have this ability to heal so so deeply, like we are so interconnected into those whatever you want to call them right the energy, the juicy vibes. But on a scientific level too, there’s a lot that’s transpiring within our brain and with our body that is helping us in healing a lot of these things. And so I honestly feel like when postpartum is almost like a clean slate, it’s like set your foundation and that’s what I’m hearing you say this is the time where you get to set the foundation and really build up that core piece and I don’t mean just like your core as in your core muscles, but like the foundation of your body.

And helping it heal. So like this is the time to do that. And with that let’s talk about this emotional side, because there’s such a beautiful mind and body connection that can really transpire with yoga. Can you talk a little bit about that and bring that into the postpartum space?

Deb: 25:04

So one thing about, I think, that postpartum period in the mind and the bodies I think it can be challenging. I think someone may have a hard time connecting their mind to their body because they may not feel like they understand their body anymore. So we hold space for people just setting an appreciation for their body and to let it show up and for giving themselves grace as they return to their practice. But I really think one of the main emotional benefits when people come to a postnatal class is the connection to other parents. I think that is an emotional side that we don’t often think about in a yoga class, because most of the time in a yoga class someone’s turning up, they’re rolling their mat out and they’re getting on their mat and it’s often just taught in an individual way, like the teacher’s there, and each student is doing their own thing. One thing that was really important to me when I set out to do postnatal and baby yoga and just even setting up my yoga studio, prenatal yoga center, is that community needed to be at the foundation, which feeds the healing and emotional side. You know in especially a place like New York City where my studio is based. Most of us show up there from somewhere else. We have your few handful authentic New Yorkers, but most of us are transplants from somewhere else. So we don’t have family around to support us. We have to kind of make our own family and a lot of folks have their baby and they feel incredibly isolated, which is crazy because it’s a city of how many million? But they feel isolated. So when showing up for class, we start off holding space for people to connect, but then we do something called circle time, which is everyone introduces themselves and their baby and how old their baby is, and then what’s going on, and physically and emotionally. So physically they’re gonna share. So then I’m like, okay, this is what we need to work on in class. But then emotionally they open and they can connect to others, and not just a friend that may have had a baby a couple of years ago and she’s kind of reminiscing about what she had, but somebody that’s in the thick of it right then and there. So I think it’s beyond the yoga pose that brings that mind-body connection. I think it’s literally the emotional side of parenthood, the validation of someone else’s experiencing something similar to what they are getting out of that isolation, and I think that’s an emotional benefit that is really unique to postnatal yoga.

Maranda: 27:35

Oh, I so agree, and I feel like we really learned that lesson during the COVID experience.

Deb: 27:41

Yes.

Maranda: 27:42

Yes, you know, yes, we have now. Okay, we’re transitioning to these online classes and all of that’s wonderful, but there’s this lack of community and connection that is so beneficial for our emotional health. So I’m so glad they brought that up.

Deb: 27:57

What was really interesting is we kept circle time, even online. So what was really beautiful is that, even though for like a year and a half we were completely online, we still had students showing up to the same class for postnatal and prenatal every day, every week, and when someone had their baby like, oh, what happened to Lee? And I’m like, oh, this is her first. Then she’d show up in postnatal and then Michelle would show up a couple of weeks later and so, even though they never actually were in the same room, they still were there because we opened the class for communication and community, which really it was beautiful to see that, because we’re all like crawling off the walls.

Maranda: 28:39

I love it. I love it so much. One thing that I noticed that was really helpful for me and yoga too, on like this mind, body, soul kind of connection is that I really felt like I got to know the muscles in my body and this might sound really weird, but, especially as a mom, especially as someone who’s given birth, I didn’t recognize like a lot of the muscles that were in my pelvic floor and that were in my core, and yoga actually really helped me connect in with some of these muscles to be able to do things like push right, to push my feet, to recognize, oh, this is the muscle that I should relax instead of tighten, Exactly. I learned so much about my body and really connecting in and it made things so much easier. So like if I went to my chiropractor and like, oh, this is not working out for me, it was so much easier for me to understand and explain and share with my provider like what’s going on and where I need support, and I felt it just. It was such a beautiful coming together of like, oh, this is what I need, this is what I desired in my body, this is what I’m feeling in my body, like it just opened up a whole nother world for me, but I love hearing that. I know many of my listeners are not just mamas, but also professionals in the field. They are the ones who are doing this ground floor work. They’re supporting moms and families in their own unique ways. How can they incorporate this information into their work?

Deb: 30:12

I think by sharing this as an option to remind people, this can be a great way to prep for birth, but also on the other side of rehabbing and connecting postpartum. But I also think it depends on what they do, what their profession is. So I think if every birth professional can at least be aware or know how to teach 360 breathing understanding that we don’t want to breathe into necessarily the front part of their belly, but really the side of back ribs I think is incredibly beneficial. It’s also called diaphragmatic breathing, which a lot of us know, so I think that can set people up really well and it’s great for your nervous system. And then I think the other thing is that I feel like so many people misunderstand kegels and just not telling everybody, just because you had a baby, you should be doing your kegels, because a lot of people actually end up with tension in their pelvic floor after having a baby. So learning that we need to release the tension and then rebuild the strength, I think it’s really confusing for a lot. The other day I was teaching a class and it was an online class. It was a brand new student she’s and we talk about pelvic floor work a lot in class and she’s like so am I not supposed to be doing 100 kegels a day? It depends on your pelvic floor and it is not every pelvic floor needs that. So I think there’s some misunderstanding. I think birth professionals knowing really good breathwork and then just really understanding the pelvic floor as best they can and unashamedly refer out I’m really. It took me sometimes to like feel confident in my own work, to be like, okay, I don’t know this, but I know who can tell you this. So I am always referring out when things are beyond my scope or my knowledge. So I think that can be really helpful.

Maranda: 31:57

Yeah, it is so helpful. I mean, I just remember having the support systems in place and I recommend this to all of my cohort students too who go through my programs. But your referral system is gold to your clients. If you are able to connect your clients into something or someone that is helpful for them, they’re going to be so grateful for you and, in your connection, like it’s a huge component. So I always, always say you don’t know, that’s okay, like you don’t have to know everything, and nor should you right, who wants to know? I certainly don’t.

Deb: 32:34

Yeah, and I tell that to a lot of my teacher trainees, but like they should know everything and I’m always like it’s okay. The thing that you’re going to build trust with your students is by admitting I don’t know that, but here’s someone that might, because if you try to kind of talk your way through something that you don’t really know, you might be giving misinformation. But then if they realize that you don’t know it, they’re going to lose trust in what you do know.

Maranda: 32:58

Oh, so so true, and so I always recommend if, especially if you’re working locally in your areas find people in your area who’s doing this work, who’s doing physical therapy, who’s doing yoga, who’s doing, you know, pelvic floor physical therapy, which is very different from just regular therapy. Talk to them, you know, ask them questions, get to know them a little bit, see how you dive and then recommend out is so amazing. I am just so grateful for you and your time here. Are there any other questions, Deb, that you wish I would have asked you?

Deb: 33:35

No, but I do want to give a piece of advice for those thinking about postpartum. Yes, one of the best things that I did for my first actually, my second as well was get a postpartum doula. So well, it’s not a question, it’s a suggestion. For those planning postpartum, support is incredibly important. So, if you have the means to do so, postpartum doula. For me, it was a game changer, and then one thing that I had done is I’d asked my friends not to buy all the onesies. I had a lot of hand-me-downs instead of getting me all the extra clothes that I’m probably not going to use. Can we pool that baby shower money for a postpartum doula? So that’s also a way that people can get that support.

Maranda: 34:22

So I love that. And there’s actually and I’ll include the link here along with your links but there’s a company called Be Her Village by Caitlin, and she is incredible, she does this where people can actually, instead of giving you gifts or whatever this case may be, they can put money toward services not just a doula, but the public, physical therapist, the yoga instructor, all of that. So we will make sure to drop our link. We absolutely love Caitlin. We have an whole episode with her, so we’ll be sure to make sure you get that info too. Where can people find you and all of your amazing work done? Thank you.

Deb: 34:59

Okay, so where can people find me? My website, prenatalyogasenter.com, instagram, youtube. We’re also representing on Facebook. It’s all prenatal yoga center. And then my podcast is called Yoga Birth Babies and yeah, we’ve got a ton of support for the whole perinatal period. So prenatal, postnatal and then, if anyone’s a birth professional yoga teacher and they’re thinking I’m going to get into this whole perinatal yoga, we do teacher trainings. We do three a year online for prenatal, one in person in New York City and then we do a postnatal teacher training once a year, also online. So lots of way to find me and ways to work together.

Maranda: 35:42

Oh, I love this and definitely, if you’re listening into this podcast, you’ll absolutely love Deb’s and I’m going to be on Deb’s podcast. Yay, you just finished recording that. So love it, absolutely amazing and so so grateful for you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, I am so grateful you turned into the postpartum university podcast. We’ve hoped you enjoyed this episode enough to leave us a quick review and, more importantly, I hope more than ever that you take what you’ve learned here, applied it to your own life and consider joining us in a postpartum university membership. It’s a private space where mothers and providers learn the real truth and the real tools needed to heal in the years postpartum. You can learn more at wwwpostpartumu. That’s the letter youcom. We’ll see you next week.