Postpartum Gut Health and The Mother-Baby Microbiome | Anu Simh EP 239

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

The postpartum care system is failing, leaving countless mothers struggling with depression, anxiety, and autoimmune conditions. I’m Miranda Bauer, and I’ve helped thousands of providers use holistic care practices to heal their clients at the root. Subscribe now and join us in addressing what modern medicine overlooks so that you can give your clients real lasting solutions for lifelong well-being. Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Today I have a really special guest. I am so excited to have this conversation with Anu Sim. She is a board-certified functional health coach, and she blends her background in organic chemistry, Aerovedic counseling, and holistic nutrition to really guide clients toward vibrant lasting health. Anu’s work is centered around gut health, sleep quality, circadian rhythm, the brain’s reward systems to all help reduce inflammation, manage cravings, support sustainable care, all the things. And through her nine arms of wellness program, she teaches how to use food as medicine and draws from over a hundred dietary theories to support physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being. First off, a new welcome to the show. I’m so glad you hear you’re here. And I have to ask, you you mentioned over a hundred dietary theories in your approach. Can you share like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

Well, Miranda, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I really think of this is such an important conversation, postpartum health. And um as a as a Western culture, we’re all about bouncing back, right? But I think it’s about rebuilding. And so I’m super excited to talk to you about how I feel about this. And I feel very strongly about it. And um the the dietary patterns is uh is really coming from my philosophy that uh we’re all unique, you know, we’re bio-individual. Uh, one man’s food is another man’s poison. So this whole thing about pushing a certain diet or a certain way of eating doesn’t work because food is everything. Food is social, food is cultural, uh, food is medicine, food can be poison. So it is really left to each person to figure out what works best for them. So that’s pretty much where I take my philosophy because nutrition is very complicated. And anyone who says they know everything about nutrition, I would run away from that person because it’s really hard, you know, because it all depends on who’s eating the food.

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

That is so, so full of wisdom. And thank you so much for sharing that. And I find that for myself too, it always changes, right? What worked for me in one postpartum didn’t work for me, maybe in another, or doesn’t work for me now that I’m moving into perimenopause, right? I feel like my body shifts and changes with the seasons as well, not just with the stages of life that I’m in.

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

Yeah. And the stages of change life change, the rules of the game change, and we can’t really continue eating the same way and expect the same um response. So that’s important for people to recognize. And it’s becoming more and more challenging today with social media and the pressures that we feel when we hear other people doing certain things. And like, why is that not working for me? And always reminding ourselves that we are unique and what our bodies need could be so different from what a friend or a sister or anyone else could really thrive on.

SPEAKER_01: 4:10

There is so much confusion and really like overwhelming practices and contradictory advice that I see, especially in regard to postpartum nutrition and nutrition in general. I actually think it’s like, I don’t know if you feel the same way about this, but nutrition is kind of a baby. Like we didn’t discover, you know, minerals and vitamins, and it’s it’s been less than 100 years that we’ve understood this information.

SPEAKER_00: 4:39

Yeah, and there’s a lot of confusion. Um, there are uh hidden agendas, and trying to stay neutral is becoming more and more challenging. And I think one of the reasons is food is so personal. So if someone’s really married to a certain kind of uh food protocol or something, they want to really push that, but it doesn’t always work. And that goes for any stage in life, right? Um, more protein, less protein, more this, more that. And that leaves uh the person who’s listening or who’s uh looking at or scrolling through um Instagram or something so confused. Like, what the heck should I eat now? I mean, I think food should be simple, food should be enjoyable, food should also be looked at as medicine at the right times.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

This is beautiful. Do you feel like there are kind of some universal guidelines that you see through shared throughout many cultures around the world, shared through different experiences that that we see as universal truths, especially when it comes to things like postpartum nutrition? For example, I see like warming practices. Like that’s that’s going to be something that’s going to benefit everyone. Yeah. Uh those kinds of things. Do you see that as being like more of the forefront of like this is what we should do rather than these are the specific foods you should have?

SPEAKER_00: 6:11

Yeah, and I I think um single nutrients, um, focusing on single nutrients don’t especially work. You know, I mean, if you think have a broader perspective of what’s happening in the third trimester, you know, your body’s going through a lot of changes, it’s preparing for birth. Um, your um, you know, your microbiome changes, it’s um um curing up for producing, harvesting more energy so there’s fuel for the baby. And once you give birth, uh, we want balance back in the microbiome. So, from a science perspective, we know that we we’re we need to do certain things in this in this stage to bring back that diversity that was lost in the third trimester. When you look at um traditional um practices like Ayurveda or traditional Chinese medicine, that um postpartum is almost like the fourth trimester. We’re looking at how do we support the mom, you know, she’s going through so much. In Ayurveda, for example, there’s a lot of dryness. Um, and um like what you said about warming, right? There’s dryness, anxiety, um, there’s stress as a new mother. Uh so air and space in the body is pretty prevalent, you know, from a batter or a dryness perspective. And if you compare science to what uh this traditional um Eastern uh science is saying, it’s pretty much the same. Listen, the the mom is exhausted, she’s going through a lot of stress, you’re the god has taken a beating. Let’s get some grounding, nourishing foods into her, let’s give her some support. This is not the season to be bouncing back, it’s more about rebuilding. And I feel like that’s uh kind of rushed in our culture because we uh we don’t have that support. First of all, a lot of us are in nuclear families, we may not have that support in traditional lives. They had like the whole village take care of mom, you know, as hey, I’m rooting for you, I’m holding your hand as you go through this difficult stage, and as a new mom. So we don’t have all of that. So what happens is stress increases, depression is at an all-time high in a postpartum situation. Um, and you need to wonder why. Why is this happening? And I feel a lot of it is coming from not having those connections, not having that support, um, and um too many cooks as far as what needs to be done. So I think um it’s very, very important for mothers to feel supported at this time.

SPEAKER_01: 9:51

It’s definitely something that I feel, especially in the US, because that’s that’s where I’m from and what I know, is that’s really not what we have available. And I feel like so many women are seeking answers, they’re looking everywhere. And when they’re not getting it from trusted people like their providers, which have no information or knowledge about nutrition, let alone postpartum nutrition, let alone postpartum physiology and how the gut is changing and the microbiome. Like that’s not part of their education and their training. No, they’re looking elsewhere. I think women everywhere are looking elsewhere, and we’re trying to figure out what we can do. And that’s why we’re going to things like social media and we’re trying to find the answers. And sometimes we might find something that works, and oftentimes we feel like nothing works. And then, you know, as what I see, especially as somebody who’s been in the field for 15 years, we feel like we’re broken and nobody will be ever able to help me, or whatever the case may be. And I love how you just tied all of this so beautifully together. I um spent the last, as I said, 15 years doing this work. And I found after writing the manual on postpartum nutrition and the gut changes and the physiology and and how that affects our brain and their microbiome and all of the these necessary components, like blending them together, it’s really just validating everything that these ancient cultures have already been telling us for thousands of years. This is not new. This is this is just a different way of coming together and sharing this information. And you have a lot of cultural knowledge and background. You’ve experienced postpartum care through Indian and Spanish and American cultural lenses. Can you kind of share what the fundamental differences are on those cultural views and the nutritional needs and the and the body’s needs?

SPEAKER_00: 12:00

Absolutely. And I’ll tell you, I lived most of my adult life in the States, but I’ve always had those cultural ties to my country, India. And um, as a young mom, I didn’t understand. Uh, for example, in India, we say 42 days of rest, six weeks of rest, you know, and that is connected. And I remember the elders in the family saying 42 days of rest is going to really determine the next 42 years of your life. And that was such a profound thing to hear for a young mother to hear. It’s like, wow, what does this mean? You know, and I think, as from a science perspective perspective, I can really understand those 42 days is about resting, relaxation, rebuilding, because your microbes have taken a beating, you’re hormonally very different, um, taking care of that and having that support around you is super important. As a young mom, and if you’re all alone, you’re taking care of the baby, you’re probably nursing. And if you’re going through a C-section, you’re recovering from that. And then on top of it, you need to be eating for both you and the baby. That’s an incredible amount of stress. And just that one thing about stress can determine your digestion, your gut-brain access, your microbiome. So I think there’s a lot of wisdom in really resting after birth, if one can afford to do that, um uh by reaching out to your family and support and say, this is where I need some support. Can we, can I get that? Um, because rest definitely lowers those stress hormones. I think a lot of young women today are looking at that five-five rule, five, five, five rule, and five days in bed, five days around bed, uh, five days around the home. And it kind of works for our modernity, you know, but this is rooted in cultures in Latin America, um, China, India. Um, and um, and this is the time when they start eating warming foods, like warm soups. Um, in India, we have dals and khichri. Uh, we have very specific spices. I know for example, my mom used to always make me these sesame balls. You know, sesame is really high in protein, it’s a warming food. And um, and uh Nigella, for example, Nigella sativa is another thing that we would make uh beautiful energy balls with that. Um, and um and she would insist that I don’t um uh do anything cold because there’s so much air and space already with the baby leaving your womb that you need to really protect it. And a lot of it may feel like uh, oh, it’s just old stuff, you know, but there’s a lot of wisdom to it. And we can pick and choose the things that feel right for us today, but uh resting makes absolute sense from a science perspective, I think. And a lot of people today are looking to, oh, I need to get back to post-pregnancy weight, and they’re rushing through it. But I think if we slow down and enjoy our connection with the baby, and this is a new life for you. You were a daughter, you were a daughter-in-law, you were a wife, and now you are in a new role, you’re a mother, and it takes time.

SPEAKER_01: 15:40

So beautifully said. And I find that these cultures, again, like they they’ve had the wisdom and they’ve had the knowledge, and they may use different words in which to describe it that maybe you know, don’t necessarily feel like we relate to it, but when we really look into it, we understand deeply how important it is for our bodies to get that kind of rest or to eat these kinds of foods. You know, one thing that I see so often is high fat of food, like high fat content foods across many, many cultures. And when you start looking into it, you know, our our culture here in the United States is that we’ve got to lose the fat. We can’t, and fat makes you fat. I see that frequently, right? And so we’ve got to stay away from this and we’ve got to go on the diet. But it’s like if you understood the neurological changes that were occurring in your brain and how much fat that required for you to have normal brain function, yeah, or breastfeeding, and how much your baby needed it for breastfeeding, uh, how much your body needed fat for repairing those tissues and building that strong foundation so that you have, you know, you mentioned, you know, 42 uh days for the next 42 years. That is the foundation that we’re building our bodies for and that how much fat is required. So, yes, our body does hold on to a lot more fat during this time because it’s so necessary for our overall health and our function and will impact the way we experience menopause.

SPEAKER_00: 17:15

Absolutely. And you it is spot on. I I think we forget that we’re doing some important work around, especially if you’re breastfeeding. Um that’s a that’s your human breast milk, is you have HMO, you’re you you have so much. Um, the nutrition plays such a big part of it. And like you said, good fats are really, really important. And um one of the things that I’ve noticed is that like in um Eastern medicine, they really promote uh adding ghee to it. Ghee is a saturated fat. So that really helps bind the protein, just really helps uh women feel warmer, um, and it helps with um um milk production, um, reduces that inflammatory response. Um, and and of course, fiber-rich foods are really important at this time. And cutting out carbs at this very important, crucial time is a big mistake, I think. You know, just really eating complex carbs, which have a lot of really good fibers, um, will bring back that microbial diversity.

SPEAKER_01: 18:27

And let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that because you’ve mentioned the the mother’s microbiome. You mentioned that it changes in the postpartum period. Can you share more about that and what that means?

SPEAKER_00: 18:39

Yeah, uh, so that is um, I think all mothers should understand that in the third trimester, for example, a mother’s microbiome changes. You know, diversity goes down, the species that are really good at harvesting um energy, um, those go up. It’s almost like, you know, her microbial workforce, you know, it just kind of starts working over time to make sure the baby’s getting enough fuel. But after birth, the system needs to reset. The gut is ready to re-expand, it’s it’s becoming more balanced, uh, diverse community again, you know. Um, and this is where food and uh rest matter the most. Um, when we think about our gut um microbes, especially our um the microbes in our colon, we have trillions of bacteria there, and we have co-evolved with them and we have a symbiotic partnership. We help them, you know, give them the right kinds of fuel and uh and a warm place, which is our colon, and they help us by building and um very important compounds called short-chain fatty acids, butrate, for example, um, and which help us in so many different ways. And that difference from the third trimester to the fourth trimester, I always call it fourth trimester because it feels it’s that time of postpartum that needs to be really, we need to care for our for our gut health, for our brain health. That is a time to increase um different kinds of fibers so digestion is no longer a problem. So a woman who’s gone through birth and is feeding the baby, of course, needs more nutrition, they need protein, they need good fats, but somewhere fibers are forgotten in this. And I think it’s so important to up that fiber intake, and the fiber can come from different plant sources. And I always look at it as like, let’s have a foundation of lots of fruits and vegetables, um, increase the diversity there. If you’re eating something that’s coming from Whole Foods, you know, uh change it up in a couple of weeks and find a broccoli that’s um um maybe from the Chinese market, like a Chinese broccoli. So increase diversity very intentionally, and um and then add things like lentils and uh beans that are really high in fiber for your health, but also not just your health, but also the health of the baby, because your the your microbiome is the biggest heirloom, family heirloom that you can give your child. And your breast milk isn’t sterile, it’s alive, it has uh immune compounds, it has bacteria, it has human milk, oligosaccharides, and they are like the fertilizers for your gut baby’s health, right? And um, it’s almost like saying your um breast milk is like a second placenter, it’s still delivering nutrients to your baby uh and training it microbially, um, uh even after the cord is cut. So what the mom eats, how she handles stress, how she sleeps really influences what’s in that milk. And I don’t say this, Miranda, uh, to add stress to a young mother because I know how difficult this time is. And I think one of the best, most important thing things to do, even before you start talking about food and is to make sure that you have support. I feel like that is the missing piece in the Western, in our Western culture. We’re so big on independence. I can do this, I can do this, I can do everything, that we forget that those connections and that support is sometimes needed.

SPEAKER_01: 22:53

I I love how you you ended on that because I feel oftentimes, and especially if you look culturally, those connections, those those moments where we are connecting in with our birth story, even, or talking about our baby and our experience and our entry into motherhood. So many of that, those, those, those conversations revolve around food. It’s when somebody from the community comes in to cook you a meal and sits with you or delivers you a meal, like those are the conversations in the community that gathers, right? We we gather around food traditionally. Um, we gather to collect our food. You know, if we’re looking about how you know we used to hunt and gather together in groups, that’s what we did. And we washed our food together, we we gathered our food together, we cooked our food together. That was, and we, of course, we ate together in many cultures. That’s still very much practiced.

SPEAKER_00: 23:50

That’s a big part of many cultures. Yeah. I mean, we live in a very, really strange world today where we work way more than we’ve ever worked. I mean, this thing of nine to five constantly working and everything changing with AI, all of that is adding more and more stress. And I see this in young mothers, you know, they just feel like where’s support? But if we could just somehow embrace that and find that support in our community, just the quality of the food is also changes because now it’s like food is coming from such faraway places, you know, even just stepping into your uh farmers market, connecting with um other mothers, you know, and finding your own little community and saying, let’s make, let’s prep together, let’s do something together. If you don’t have that elder support or that village uh continuum, you know, I think it’s um we have to kind of do the best that we can in the community that we live in, right? It’s it’s really hard. I remember as a young mother, I had um I was so frustrated because the only book that I was able to um get for as far as parenting support was Dr. Spock. We’re talking many, many months ago, right?

SPEAKER_01: 25:13

Yes, I remember.

SPEAKER_00: 25:16

And he was very Germanic in his approach. It was like, be strict, do this, do that, and it went against everything that I was raised to believe in. And I was so confused. I said, Am I going to be raising a spoiled brat? You know, if I didn’t do that, and it was so hard for me as a young mother. But around that time, I came across a book called The Continuum Concept, you know, which really talked about African mums and how they carry their babies when they are in the fields and they’re working. They never let them down because they want them to feel safe and loved. And that spoke to me so much more than this really hardcore uh picture that it just didn’t resonate with me. That I pretty much raised my children on that, on that philosophy of you can’t really spoil a baby.

SPEAKER_01: 26:12

You can’t. Yeah, absolutely. I I am in with you in a hundred percent agreement. I think this is all such gold, and I feel like I can talk with you forever on these concepts and and all the things related. Where can people connect in with you?

SPEAKER_00: 26:28

Um, well, my uh book is out and about the microbiome, and that’s on Amazon. Um, and it’s called Flourish from Within. And um, I have a um at different stages of change in the microbiome picture. So there’s also a big part of mothers and pregnancy and post, and how do you feed your babies so they have a good microbial diversity? And that’s very important to me. And it’s a mission that I’m on that young babies, children should they have that golden age, zero to three years, when we can really fine-tune their microbiome. And if we can do that, that is the best gift you can give your child. I 100% believe it. And I don’t believe it just because it’s just a romantic notion. There’s the three years of research that I did on the book. Um hundred percent there is so much support around this from a science perspective. So, yes, that’s one thing. And if people want to reach me, then um my website is ninearms of wellness.com and my Instagram is at 9arms of wellness.

SPEAKER_01: 27:39

I absolutely love this. I had I just typed in, I don’t know if you could hear me typing, uh, into Amazon. I have the book. It’s in my cart. I’m so excited to get it. Thank you so, so much for this.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

This has been such a beautiful, beautiful conversation. Thank you, Miranda. It was a pleasure. And uh I think it’s great work that you’re doing. Uh uh, women in this age, uh young mothers need to be supported, you know, and they need they need a place where they can feel safe, but they need the science, but they also need compassion. And I think you’re giving them all of it, so which is fantastic. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

Thanks so much for being a part of this crucial conversation. I know you’re dedicated to advancing postpartum care. And if you’re ready to dig deeper, come join us on our newsletter where I share exclusive insights, resources, and the latest tools to help you make a lasting impact on postpartum health. Sign up at postpartum you the letter you.com, which is in the show notes. And if you found today’s episode valuable, please leave a review to help us reach more providers like you. Together, we’re building a future where mothers are fully supported and thriving.